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odizzle

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Posts: 51
Reply with quote  #1 
Jeff and other members of this forum - you have been so kind as to help me since I joined. I am doing better but am looking for what I would hope to be some last reassurance. The below are just my thoughts, followed by some questions that I believe may resolve my worry.

Thought process (sorry, may be wrong - I hope not - but perhaps some one could validate?):

Anxiety is something you cannot control.

We want to control it/not feel it because it is uncomfortable and scares us. 

As a result, every time we inevitably feel it, we search for that 'answer' so we don't have to feel it anymore. 

We come across good information, but alas, when the feelings come we disregard it thinking it didn't work and continue to search.

The search is all about not feeling any anxiety, finding that one line that means you don't feel it ever again. That if you feel anxiety, you are on the wrong path and need to do more searching.

As a result, we never accept. 

As a result, we stay in the cycle of anxiety > not accepting (continuing to worry - search). 

Perhaps that is why Dr Weekes' said 'the cure is simple, but I didn't say easy. First you need to give the patient an understanding'. 

I feel she said that so when the feelings DO come, you will not be on the constant bandwagon of worrying trying to 'figure this thing out'. 

In fact, it is probably this that causes so much of the chaos we feel.

I think the people that do recover, get the message that resonates with them, understand/trust in it and then whilst the feelings STILL DO COME, as they have an understanding (as their anchor to resolve worry?) and are not bewildered (as Dr Weekes would put it), no more fear creeps into the picture. No more worry, to keep this going.

Questions: 

As far as 'GAD' is concerned - is unresolved worry pretty much the fuel for it? 

Can you actually really accept if you are still worried/convinced there is 'something else wrong' or some sort of big doubt that still exists to worry you?


Is recovery from anxiety really just about finding or getting that understanding that resolves you worry / allows you to see anxiety as unimportant so that you can THEN not question (worry) and accept? I know Dr Weekes said when her friend who was a WW1 veteran told her he experienced all of her symptoms when he was in the trenches and they were symptoms of fear, she was able to accept them and they cleared up a month after, so I assume so?

Why is it exactly that anxiety continues to come even after getting an understanding? Is it because I am worrying AT PRESENT and that's why I feel the sensations? Or is it that the body keeps throwing anxiety up randomly from habit? I think not knowing this is what worries me most and why I continue to search. 

Yes, I'd say the red is probably my big one...

In advance, I can only thank you all so very much for any insight. 

- O


Wilsonn_1

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Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #2 
Why is it exactly that anxiety continues to come even after getting an understanding? Is it because I am worrying AT PRESENT and that's why I feel the sensations?


I believe people who suffer from anxiety disorder are more sensitive. That doesn't mean we can't have lower level of stress than people who have never experience overwhelm anxiety symptoms. The thing about anxiety is when you try to stop feeling anxious, the feelings just become worse instead. But, when i let the anxious feelings be, when i feel it to the fullest, be open to it without trying to supress the feelings, the anxious feeling decrease dramatically, this is the paradox about overcoming anxiety. People who are recovered just having the habit to deal with anxiety without trying to stop or supress it. Over time, the brain have the habit to not worry about worrying.

I still remember when i just suffer from anxiety, from scale 1 to 10, my anxiety level is 10. After reading many things on how to overcome it on the internet, it slowly decrease to 7 and 6. At that time i'm still not satisfied and feel like im an unlucky person to have ever experience this awful feelings of overwhelm anxiety. No matter how hard i practice acceptance to overcome anxiety, my anxiety level is still pretty high, at level 7 or 6. Then, i just understand more about my anxiety condition, have more insight about it, and my anxiety level decrese to 4 or 3.

Not until i truly surrender, let my anxiety do it's thing, when i don't resist it anymore, when i start to believe that i'm just a normal person like anyone else who have never experience anxiety disorder, my anxiety level drop to 1, like how it's currently my condition [smile]. But it's scary, real scary to think that we are just a normal person, we have been thinking and believing multiple times that we are this special kind of human, who can't have normal feelings, who can't live a day without feeling anxious, thus, our anxiety level just stay high. In fact there will come the times when you feel scary not to analyzing anymore about anxiety and feel afraid to not use technique to overcome anxiety, but that is what keeping you from having overwhelm anxiety, we have been conditioning ourselves to feel high anxiety all the time, that when we feel low anxiety, we feel weird and afraid then coming back to having high level anxiety again. I don't know how to explain this clearly, as english is my second language, but i hope you get my points.

I realized in the past when my anxiety level is 7 or 6, i do still analyzing how to overcome anxiety so much that it just making me feel worse. Not until i completely let it go, when i'm now currently recovered, i just realized i never analyze about anxiety anymore. Sometimes having a bad day or bad event could trigger the anxiety, but it just feels like some fun electricity feeling in my mind and body that i don't even try to overcome it, instead i feel it fully and not resist it, and guess what? It just fades away without me trying to or noticing about the feelings. That's what recovery means.
Serenity

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Posts: 72
Reply with quote  #3 
I don't think it needs to be so complicated. 

I spent a good portion of an anxiety disorder trying to analyze it, study it, glean as many facts and as much knowledge as I could about it...in the end, what matters is knowing "it" (anxiety) just doesn't matter.

As soon as I started to stop giving it any credence, it all started to fall away on its own.  I didn't need to DO anything.  If I did anything, it was in passively just letting it all go. 

When my "worried mind" started the "What ifs...?" and my "False comfort mind" started rationalizing with it and then getting frustrated and angry at it, I accessed my "wise mind" and calmly told them both, "Go on arguing if you want, but it never solves anything, I don't fall for anxiety's bluff, so I'm going to focus on more interesting things."  (This idea came from Dr. Seif's book on Intrusive Thoughts.)

So basically, just do nothing but let go.  Don't analyze, don't try, try, try at this that and the other, don't try to solve anything.  As Jeff always says, there is actually nothing to solve.  It's a mirage and anxiety sufferers keep falling for it day after day.

Put your focus externally (yes, this can be hard initially), and don't make any decisions based on fear/anxiety.  Don't avoid or withdraw.  Just go live your life as any normal person would.  When worried mind/false comfort start up, under-react and gently dismiss the chatter...those thoughts don't mean anything, no impending doom, no danger, they are nonsensical chatter and you fall for the trap.  Just gently dismiss them and listen in to the wise mind that KNOWS deep down that this is all meaningless. 

The less you react to your fears/anxiety, the more it naturally calms down.  The key is doing it long enough and having enough faith that it will eventually let you be if you dismiss it and ignore it long enough. 

__________________
"Acceptance should be written on your heart."  ~Dr. Claire Weekes
Buttons

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Posts: 13
Reply with quote  #4 
As far as 'GAD' is concerned - is unresolved worry pretty much the fuel for it?

GAD can be dismissed in the same was as anxiety. GAD is worrying about the future that you actually have zero control over. To conquer GAD you can just accept that you don't have all the answers in the present moment but continue to live your life taking the unknown with you whilst dismissing any anxious questions and making sure you don't answer or try to resolve them.

Can you actually really accept if you are still worried/convinced there is 'something else wrong' or some sort of big doubt that still exists to worry you?

Yes. You can accept the possibility that there may be "something else wrong" but take the risk anyway and continue to accept the anxiety.

Is recovery from anxiety really just about finding or getting that understanding that resolves you worry / allows you to see anxiety as unimportant so that you can THEN not question (worry) and accept? I know Dr Weekes said when her friend who was a WW1 veteran told her he experienced all of her symptoms when he was in the trenches and they were symptoms of fear, she was able to accept them and they cleared up a month after, so I assume so?

Recovering anxiety isn't about resolving your worry. It's about leaving it all unresolved and continuing to live your life as you would without anxiety. Your brain will forever question and worry.. that's what it has been trained to do. You can watch it question everything and leave everything unanswered. You don't even need to believe it's "just anxiety" to accept. Like I said earlier, you can accept the possibility that it might be something more sinister... but that you are going to take that risk and accept anyway.

Why is it exactly that anxiety continues to come even after getting an understanding? Is it because I am worrying AT PRESENT and that's why I feel the sensations? Or is it that the body keeps throwing anxiety up randomly from habit? I think not knowing this is what worries me most and why I continue to search.

You have probably been practising anxious habits for many years. This attitude is essentially the opposite of what you've probably been doing most of your life. You don't need to know why the anxiety is still here with you. You can leave that question unanswered and continue to accept the sensations/thoughts/questions. Searching isn't practising acceptance. Figuring out why you are still anxious isn't acceptance. Acceptance is not having ANY answers and taking the unknown with you at all times. Life cannot be figured out or controlled. Stay in the present and don't be tempted to answer any of those questions.
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