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honey915

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I don't think I'll ever get over this. I must be thick or something. I'm now pregnant 13 weeks with my fourth and I'm just not able to accept. I know it's all in my head but I'm powerless. I keep trying, then I think don't try too hard just accept, don't read too much into the feelings just get on with life but it's so effing hard. I feel resentful of normal people that just get on with life and are able to handle things that life throws at them. The feeling of constant anxiety and unease just fills me with constant dread. I don't really know what I'm doing wrong. I do everything the right way for ages to no avail. Now I'm pregnant I feel totally vulnerable as I can't take medication if I need it. Not that I have used meds. I'm sick of enjoyable activities being completely ruined. What's the point in doing anything fun when it's wrecked by feeling awful the whole time? What is the point in living like this? I've contemplated getting serious help because I just want to throw the towel in. I don't know why I'm suffering. I can't accept something that feels bloody awful and when I do get some peace I just fall back into old ways again. As I write this my heart is pounding and I don't know when it will calm down. I want to cry. My whole body feels like it's got this charge of negative energy coursing through it. I feel like this method just teaches coping. Not proper relief. I just have to learn to out up and shut up. I'm starting to feel totally hopeless again. I think I can go back into therapy and talk it through with someone. But that's not worked the other 7 times so why would it now? What's.the.point
bredell

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Reply with quote  #2 
You know what honey your done your spent you can't control this thing anymore you are so right so give the F up already! You can't beat it you tried every single way to control it!! It's time to give up! Let it win!!!! It's the only way out!! I was exactly where you are when I said F it I'd rather be dead then live another damn day be anxiety ridden! I layed down on the floor and totally gave up I told anxiety to kill me and I meant it I was done living this way! Surrender honey, you've got to get to the other side!!! I so can relate that's why I'm so passionate with you today! I was once where you are! Today I was in the Everglades in Florida searching for alligators! Which I flew 3 hours to get there! So trust me you can get well!!
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debby jones
honey915

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bredell
You know what honey your done your spent you can't control this thing anymore you are so right so give the F up already! You can't beat it you tried every single f in way to control it!! It's time to give up! Let it win!!!! It's the only way out!! I was exactly where you are when I said F it I'd rather be dead then live another damn day be anxiety ridden! I layed down on the floor and totally gave up I told anxiety to kill me and I F IN meant it I was done living this way! Surrender honey, you've got to get to the other side!!! I so can relate that's why I'm so passionate with you today! I was once where you are! Today I was in the Everglades in Florida searching for alligators! Which I flew 3 hours to get there! So trust me you can get well!!


Well done for flying bredell I know that was one of your last hurdles. Thankyou for replying and being so direct. I think the problem is that when I found out I was pregnant the excitement and morning sickness took over and the anxiety was on the back burner because of the pregnancy. Now that the sickness is wearing off the anxiety has come flooding back all at once. It's made me feel hopeless and helpless and when those two feelings creep in it takes over and you feel despairing. That's when all hope is gone and that is a powerful thing. Should surrendering feel so much like trying? I have years of resistance to anxiety that my automatic habit is to resist. I try to keep accepting that it's there but trying is the key work here. Acceptance shouldn't feel like trying. How do you accept and not 'the so hard' I'm obviously doing something wrong here. I'm so scared of setbacks because I fear that if I ever recover a setback will just suck me back under and it takes so long to get the message to sink in that I could end up spending another ten years trying to accept again and follow this method.
bredell

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Reply with quote  #4 
Acceptance is completely giving up control you can't only do it half way it's gotta be a 100%.i know after all this time you are still having panic attacks so there's no way you are following this method and doing it 100%.! Panic can not survive by doing what Jeff describes here. Your case isn't special you are just not applying correctly. Tell me what you mean when you say " your trying". Give me more details of what your day is like pertaining to anxiety. This way I can better answer your questions.
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debby jones
odizzle

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Reply with quote  #5 
Ultimately, I believe this; anxiety disorder/nervous illness/every anxiety problem is the result of sustained fear towards initial fear symptoms, as Dr Weekes says. 

The opposite of sustained fear, is acceptance. When you accept, fear is not sustained (added) and so that is where change in the body/nervous system occurs. It is not being constantly stimulated with secondary fear. Let's make that a habit [smile]

This is the practise that we must develop. Scary, no doubt, but something I believe we all have the choice to practise and something that gets easier with time. (EDIT: I personally believe people 'accept' out of fear and then wonder why it doesn't work - they take acceptance the wrong way - acceptance = not caring as will be illustrated in the final paragraph)

I think this chimes with what bredell says below - we CANNOT irradiate the fact that there is some courage required to accept, it IS scary and feels against our instinct, always but what is the alternative? Those that don't want to face this test will be running for the rest of their lives, for that magic quote, that pill etc.

To pin your hopes on instant relief or finding a way around this test of acceptance (that is to say get used to feeling your anxiety without reacting) means we'd be searching forever. Personally, I find comfort in that knowing that answers why I still feel the way I do - I can see the straight line ahead, direction. 

The initial fear symptoms, I don't think are the problem. They are uncomfortable, sure. But our real suffering lies in our response or moreover, our perception of those initial symptoms which dictates that.

Do we want to be broken records CONSTANTLY at the mercy of the same cycle of fear - adrenalin - fear? 

This is definitely an attitude - a lot of people who are cured talk about this 'attitude that develops' and I am starting to see what they mean. Sufferers make the mistake of thinking 'what is that one thing that cures anxiety' and that is the wrong attitude. 

The attitude is not caring - something that comes more over time and you practise acceptance or getting p*ssed off - as bredell mentions (and many others) below [smile]

From your post, it sounds like everything you are doing ("I keep trying, then I think don't try too hard just accept, don't read too much into the feelings just get on with life but it's so effing hard.") is with the caveat that this must bring you relief from your anxiety.

Why? Because you fear it. You want it gone.

But who cares about this meaningless charge of energy that is only perpetuated by our own fear of it?

It's not caring about it that is the trick. I've been where you are, 1000 times so I most certainly do not want to appear on my high horse.

I actually recovered from anxiety once before about 6 years ago and I always wondered what did I do back then. I've started to realize now that it's probably because I developed the attitude that I had now - giving less of a crap. I actually didn't have ANY knowledge back then either, no idea about acceptance or Dr Weekes - I just concluded that this feeling is wrong and lost respect for it.

Guess I was accepting without knowing. Because I wasn't trying... Some times having too much knowledge can be stifling and prevent you from taking action, hoping to find that magic line for relief.

To conclude, I just think NOTHING MATTERS. Any questioning, insight, worry, searching, seeking just seems irrelevant because this feeling is just a load of crap and doing anything to validate it through the respect for it just makes this illusion alive.

I'm kind of writing this to vent for myself too so I hope you aren't offended by my tone - I hope it helps. It's certainly what I would have told myself long ago. Hope it helps and you realise these feelings mean nothing and how you feel actually doesn't matter.

Hence how they've been felt 1000 times and you're still here perfectly healthy. The only reason you still have anxiety is because of how you feel about that feeling.

P.S here's a excerpt of Dr Weekes' own struggle with anxiety that I hope helps - it really influenced and may make clearer everything I've said above:

 My laboratory was on the top floor of University College and a friend of mine, who'd been in the Army during the First World War, flew up the stairs to greet me. I met him with “Oh, John, I can't take this any longer. I’ve had it!” He said, “What's wrong?” I told him what I was going through. “Oh'” he said, and he just shrugged. That’s nothing; those are only the symptoms of nerves. We all had those in the trenches.” And he explained to me that what I had been so worried about were only the symptoms of fear, my own fear. “That makes sense!” I said. “All time I've been doing this to myself?” He said, “Yes” and laughed. Within a month I was cured and climbing mountains in Switzerland. So you see, I know how important symptoms can be. I had everything to live for and I knew it, I'd achieved so much, the whole of life lay before me, but I was incapacitated by the symptoms of fear and had never been told that that was all they were. I had been to doctors, specialists, and yet nobody had mentioned the symptom of fear. And the symptoms of fear had been so fearful! 
 While I was in London, at night I'd just be going off the sleep when suddenly I'd wake with a start and a racing heart, which quickly became palpitations. Then I would sit up for hours for fear that I'd die if I lay down. But after my friend told me the cause, I'd just lie and think, as calmly as I could, “OK, I’ll go to sleep palpitating if necessary!” I did, and soon the whole thing cleared up. 
bredell

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Reply with quote  #6 
Great post Odizzle!
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debby jones
odizzle

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thanks Debby - you seem to be a valuable poster around here and it's so kind of you to pass your wisdom on to others. 

My favourite part of the post (obviously not any part that I wrote!) was the line where Dr Weekes says “OK, I’ll go to sleep palpitating if necessary!” .

We all have different symptoms, no doubt, but I think that really puts acceptance into perspective as it gives a really good insight into what she thought (i.e "it's just sensitzation/nerves" - no unresolved questions/bewilderment there...) about her fear symptoms (anxiety) in order to say that to herself and respond that way [smile]

God bless you Dr Weekes! I am going to go to bed with a smile on my face tonight in her memory.
honey915

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Reply with quote  #8 
Oh yes you're absolutely right. I'm definitely doing something wrong. I'm not accepting. I'm trying to get it right but I'm seeing no results. It frustrates me immensely because I know the way and have done for nearly half of my years of struggling yet here I am. Still struggling. I question it alot especially lately. Why me? What did I do wrong? What's wrong with me? Truth is I will never know the answer to these questions yet I can't move away from them. I don't seem to want to accept it because I hate it so much I can't help but resist. Or TRY not to resist which isn't acceptance. When I feel this sensitised, I have a total block up to acceptance and any anxiety feelings feel twice as bad with all the negative thoughts maintaining them and rational thought unable to get it and change things up.

In five years I've coped with life. Ive coped with work. I've faced everything and not avoided anything. I'm halfway there with facing. I rarely completely enjoy anything. I feel angry about that. I'm fed up with just coping.

I wish I could accept. I try radical acceptance but it only works when I'm feeling angry and that motivates me. I fear going back to dark dark places I've been at before. Those times haunt me and in desperation I struggle with anxiety to prevent going back there again. I'm terrified of going back there. It's so hard to get out of those holes because I don't think at all straight there and it is like a block is in the way to even the basic of functioning.
bredell

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Reply with quote  #9 
Honey all I can tell you is you have a choice you can continue to put up with this crap or you can commit to doing acceptance 100%... If you can't find the courage to do it for you then do it for those 4 kids of yours! Also try finding a good therapist who specializes in anxiety disorders! You and your kids deserve for you to be well. But it's up to you to take that first step to DECIDE you are going to do this 100%...
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debby jones
Serenity

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Reply with quote  #10 
You mentioned fearing setbacks.  I wanted to let you know that I was recovered for about 3 months, went through some stress of buying/selling our home and had a setback.  It hasn't been my first.

But I say this to bring some hope and comfort, I'm actually fine with the setback because I know how to get out of it now.  Setbacks just give us the opportunity to really grasp the concept and know how to apply it correctly.  That's it. 

In "trying" to accept, you're still attempting to control it and fight your way out of it.  I get it.  I understand why you would naturally do that, it's our common sense response to pain and suffering.  It's just not the way out.

Like bredell said, don't even try anymore.  Give yourself the gift of not having to force anything anymore and don't pick it back up again.  Let it go for long enough and you will see that you begin to feel better.  Everyone's nervous system is the same and heals the same.  Yours isn't any different.  It will work but you gotta take off the boxing gloves.  [smile]

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"Acceptance should be written on your heart."  ~Dr. Claire Weekes
Spectacledbear

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It's easy to see who has been in thick of it and those who has had mild experiences of anxiety.
honey915

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectacledbear
It's easy to see who has been in thick of it and those who has had mild experiences of anxiety.


I think everyone's battle is their own battle pure and simple. I've been suicidal lately. I'm not agoraphobic thank God but I have been briefly. I refused to allow that to happen. I'd rather die. I force myself to face everything. It's painful facing up to problems head on when I could quite happily just hide away and stay there forever because that would be easier but I won't give up. I don't think it's fair to compare anyone's experience. We are all broken biscuits fighting our own issues and we need to keep supporting each other.
honey915

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brittanykayy



I've SOOO been there ! But I'm not there anymore because I've worked my butt off and used the tools to retrain my mind and rewire my brain. You know when it all changed for me ? When I changed from a victim mentality (poor me) to a warrior mentality (I will beat this and I will work damn hard to do it). It's like flipping a switch and commiting. Check out the "anxiety guy" podcasts and on YouTube. His wisdom is on point and he was a huge help in my healing. Huge.
I spent two years reading hours a day, researching, I was determined to figure this thing out. I changed my diet, i eat nothing but whole natural foods now. I changed my lifestyle, I exercise an hour a day, I spend time with God, I help other people and I work on self improvement daily like it's my part time job.
I never took meds, I forced myself to struggle through hell. But some decide to take meds to help them get through all the hard work and that's ok! You can do this.
The pregnancy is absolutely making it worse and yes you can go on meds. Zoloft has been proven safe for pregnancy. Trust me, you can do this! Reach out for help !!!!!!!!! Start the work. You can it.


Thankyou. It's inspirational to hear those that have come through the other side.
honey915

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity
You mentioned fearing setbacks.  I wanted to let you know that I was recovered for about 3 months, went through some stress of buying/selling our home and had a setback.  It hasn't been my first.

But I say this to bring some hope and comfort, I'm actually fine with the setback because I know how to get out of it now.  Setbacks just give us the opportunity to really grasp the concept and know how to apply it correctly.  That's it. 

In "trying" to accept, you're still attempting to control it and fight your way out of it.  I get it.  I understand why you would naturally do that, it's our common sense response to pain and suffering.  It's just not the way out.

Like bredell said, don't even try anymore.  Give yourself the gift of not having to force anything anymore and don't pick it back up again.  Let it go for long enough and you will see that you begin to feel better.  Everyone's nervous system is the same and heals the same.  Yours isn't any different.  It will work but you gotta take off the boxing gloves.  [smile]


I try not to try but I don't know how to accept without trying! How do you accept gracefully without putting effort into it? I think this is where I'm going wrong.
honey915

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bredell
Acceptance is completely giving up control you can't only do it half way it's gotta be a 100%.i know after all this time you are still having panic attacks so there's no way you are following this method and doing it 100%.! Panic can not survive by doing what Jeff describes here. Your case isn't special you are just not applying correctly. Tell me what you mean when you say " your trying". Give me more details of what your day is like pertaining to anxiety. This way I can better answer your questions.


So a typical work day (by far the most challenging of all).. I wake up dreading the initial meeting of the day. I have to take the meeting so all eyes on me. What if I can't talk or breathe too fast and people notice I'm really nervous? What if I have to leave the room. Then everyone will know etc. All 15 minutes of this meeting but I worry about it throughout the week on and off and try to dismiss it by saying 'its not happening yet' and 'deal with it at the time not now in the present unless it's haooening' yet every time it happens I feel terror. I get ready and go to work feeling mildly apprehensive but positive that today 'i am not going to let it take me down. I am going to say f it. I am giving this meeting and I don't care how I feel. I will push past the feeling and heart pounding and feeling like I'm going to have to flee the room'. I venture out with the right intentions.

I get into the office where I'll be taking the meeting with about 8 others. I freak out. My heart pounds but I smile to everyone and make polite chit chat that I can't even really stick on the conversation with because the feeling is overwhealming and I feel awful. I pretend on the outside that I'm fine. Inside my body is TERRIFIED. I start the meeting and feel awful. Once I've started I can't really stop. I try to speed up and get through it quickly then remind myself that I'm doing this wrong I should be taking my time and handling the anxiety and experiencing it as just a feeling. But it's more than that. It's sheer terror. My heart pounds so much that quickly I try to draw others into the conversation so I have time to stop talking enabeling my heart to stop racing for a short time. I also think of excuses to leave the room of I have to or if I can't draw someone else in to talk instead of me while I calm I down I'll say 'oh I've suddenly come over really unwell'. So I can pause and get my heart rate down or my breath down. As I approach the end of this meeting I feel relief. Huge relief. I then start my day feeling trapped. I have 12 hours of this and I can't go home. I am responsible and in charge of my section. There is noone to cover me. I've worked here 4 years and I've never gone home sick for anything let alone anxiety. I know once that happens I'll keep doing it. I worry eventually I'll lose my job. What if I lose my job? I imagine all this usually throughout the morning. And I keep feeling huge waves of crashing anxiety causing me to speed up my work and get through it quickly. I tell myself slow down. Face the feeling
but I have this urge to move fast. I dread the idea of having nothing to do to distract me.

During breaks in the staff room I feel it unless I'm alone in there. I don't avoid being with others but I hate it. Usually it settles by late afternoon and nearer to home time. Bizarrely that same meeting (with slightly less people) in the evening just before home time I give without much fear at all because I am going home now. As soon as I'm home I feel safe. When off work I feel much better. Some days I feel anxiety for no reason. I go about my daily business but I feel sad. That it's robbed yet another day of my life.

Some days I only have anxiety during the meeting and then it settles for the rest of the day. But this is rare. When my morning sickness was awful I didn't feel so bad because I had a great excuse to leave the room and be sick etc to feel dizzy and unwell which I often do. But I know I shouldn't be giving myself this safety blanket. I'm scared that if I accept it all I'll suddenly feel cornered and thrown off! For example if I carry on through the pounding heart it won't settle it'll get worse. I'll feel sudden Terror and have an attack. Then everyone will know. Because an attack would be fatal. Then I would be revealed as a fake!
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